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Rick
Site Admin
Joined: 08 May 2003
Posts: 106
Location: NC, US
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 Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:30 am Post subject: Is VRML / X3D dead? |
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I was reading an interesting post today on the www-vrml mailing list from Brian Hay he writes:
| Quote: | Len Bullard wrote:
> But heck, just for fun, Brian, if this stuff is adequate, why does Raph tell
> his readers that VRML/X3D is dead technology? Why don't gamers take it
> seriously?
Just 'cause some ill-informed commentator says a technology is dead,
doesn't make it so. "Just for fun", it's like if I chose to get all my
news from Fox News, I'd probably think that invading Iraq in the face of
international condemnation was a damn fine idea.
Dignifying such junk with a response often just comes across as
desperately defensive, is counter-productive and doesn't change anyone's
mind. Better to show by example. Get out there and develop some
leading-edge X3D content that is comparable to what gamers expect from a
today's games. The X3D format is certainly capable - believe me. With
world-class content we'll attract world-class content designers but it's
a catch-22 - someone needs to show it can be done. Some already are.
Why don't gamers take X3D seriously? Some do. I'm a gamer. Many of the
people I know who develop quality X3D content are dedicated gamers. In
fact, I think that good content developers benefit greatly from exposure
to the cutting edge techniques they experience in the latest games.
As I said in a previous post, it's not a war. It's not us or them. There
aren't simply "gamers versus X3D" or "SecondLifers versus X3D". It's not
a black and white choice. It is more correct to say that even within
game development itself, there is a plethora of choice in terms of
formats, programming languages and runtime engines (both closed and
open-source). Everyone has their preference and indeed many opt to
reinvent the wheel despite the overwhelmingly choice.
This, more than any other factor, I feel is why the real-time 3D sector
is so diverse/fractured. Every CS graduate with a graphics major wants
to write their own real-time 3D engine and associated file format. It's
part of what drives them. It has zero to do with choosing to use a
standard or choosing to use, for example, the Unreal engine. Coders want
to code. Graphics coders want to code graphics engines. They all think
they can do a better job than the next guy (or girl  . Simple as that.
This desire to continually reinvent the wheel needn't be an issue, as
such diversity drives competition and innovation. X3D benefits from this
along with the industry as a whole.
The same diversity isn't evident in other sectors to the same degree
because they're simply not perceived to be "sexy". For instance, you're
now less likely to see proprietary challengers to the XHTML format or
the dominant implementations such as Mozilla's Gecko and MSIE. Graduate
coders don't feel the need to reinvent this particular wheel it seems.
One day there will be some consensus and consolidation in real-time 3D,
simply because it is becoming way to expensive to continually reinvent
the wheel. But that day is not yet.
Live and let live. Don't try to convert the masses or debunk the
detractors. Words are cheap. Embrace the diversity and show by example
with compelling content.
Brian. |
Well put Brian!
-rick |
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Mcfly
Forum Junkie
Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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great article!!
3D Magazine should have a column dedicated to web3d!
i'll do the job! i can spel reely well! |
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Omind
Forum Junkie
Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 10
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:29 pm Post subject: Is VRML / X3D dead? |
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Boy, this one keeps popping up! For the longest time (It seems) I've been watching & waiting to see what was going to happen with X3D. What I see is alot of griping about SL! They are talking about 2 different things tho. SL is a product (to qoute Lars) and VRML/X3D are a technology and a standard. If people don't want it to die, then steps need to be taken. Rick, here, is offering an answer (At least for people like me), to the question of "do we have to be dependent on Blaxxun to create & publish in this standard?". Others like Fabricator & Peter are also working on it. I wish I was better versed in the server-side code.
Some of us as Builders can help by making more attractive, immersive and unique worlds & environments that people want. In the outers there is a core group of builders and developers that carry the flag and there are people who want to go up and chat/interact with each other. The SECOND group is the ones that will attract others to the worlds, NOT the former. There are people at this time creating games & worlds in this "dead" technology. Unfortunately the places where you could really attract people with creativity are the communities like CT and others, are way too restrictive when it comes to submitting ideas & worlds.
Some of us, (Myself and X, for example) are trying to promote the worlds and enviroments to other places out there. (IMVU, etc) The only way a technology is dead is when the creators kill it (Atmosphere), or when the users, builders & developers say so.
Lastly, I suspect that when these "informed individuals" claim that a thing is dead, you have to look for an agenda. I remember when the wags claimed newspapers would be a thing of the past. But, here I am, putting out 5 per week, with an avid and religiously faithful readership in 2007! Hmmmm
Just my 2 cents |
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Mcfly
Forum Junkie
Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:45 am Post subject: |
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doh! (sorry im old guy, did that date me? 
Last edited by Mcfly on Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mcfly
Forum Junkie
Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:47 am Post subject: |
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well the lack of content is a big problem. perhaps vrml needs
a place like renderosity...
it seems that the best, most..uh..fun stuff is usually
created outside of the usa.
except for the fantastic works of x and omind of course. |
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Shelenn
Forum Regular
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:29 am Post subject: |
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Hi all!
I thought I would drop my 2 cents in the slot. Here are a few thoughts people touch base on with a focus on what it tells us:
Gamers want quality graphics and immersion - until recent hardware and connectivity advancements, VRML/X3D was limited.
Community users want interactive community capabilities. - builders need to focus on interactivity in the worlds as well as the server
People in general are lazy. - idiot proofing as always is a factor in server and user interface design
Typical computer users have difficulty with things they are unfamiliar with. - human factors engineering concepts need to be employed for intuitive user interfaces and client updates
Typical community users are not gamers. - navigation has to be compatible with mouse and touchpad users not gamer style for community worlds
Commercial interests want to be able to protect code from theft. - until recently this was not possible but even now it is still proprietary, once X3D standards for encryption is complete this will change
Community users are attracted to other users more than they are graphics. - it is not always the graphics or the content that attracts users, often it is more related to where their friends are or the larger base of potential friends etc. with similar interests
Gamers and community users are attracted to servers with ease of use, familiarity, and stability. - when users find another community server that is easier to use, has greater stability, yet still familiar, they tend to migrate there as long as a good number of users already exist (the harder part being the building of a user base not the worlds and server)
Some community users will always have a sense of loyalty but they are in the minority. - some users are uncomfortable with change or have a sense of loyalty to their first 3D community, trying to get these users to migrate is a futile effort
As with any technology, survival depends on the law of supply and demand. As builders, whether we code, design, or do server admin, if we want VRML/X3D to survive and grow, we have to think about what users want not what we think they should have. I will leave that thought trail undone for all to ponder and discuss. |
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Shelenn
Forum Regular
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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Oh just two more things to note on this topic:
There was a mention of ABNet on a CNET comment on the topic as well as mention of Fab and Peter's work.
In addition, while doing some research today, it appears there is a plugin for WireFusion so that it can render vrml and x3d...
... soooooooooo I guess all the skeptics are wrong!  |
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Mcfly
Forum Junkie
Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:19 pm Post subject: hello |
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hello,
its very interesting to figure out who the LARGE market
for vrml/x3d is. will a aspecific corporate user group
bring vrml/x3d into public user consciousness or will a
more grassroots thingie happen?
i think mature , older gamers will be interested but most gamers
are still in their twenties and have yet to seek other
non-frag-based (heheheh) entertainment.
i also wonder why the elements of being able to put up
a rudimentary world (of your own), along with a chat
server(or on their own pc, like with abnet here)
aren't being put in a box and shipped off to fry's?
cheers!
mcfli |
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